Kay Grigg interview 1/4 transcript

Posted by Less Prone on July 8, 2015 at 2:19pm

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Transcribed from Eric Hufschmid’s 1998 video interview.

KG: Kay Griggs

EH: Eric Hufschmid

OC: [off camera] Three people, I think. Camera, lighting and one other.

EH: ...Okay, everything is rolling?

 OC: [unintelligible]

EH: Yep, the red lights on. Okay, let’s say a little a prayer. Lord Jesus, we’re thankful of this day and opportunity to do your service. Lord you said you should know the truth and the truth shall make you… free. And that's what we're interested in accomplishing here today, in Jesus’ name. Alright, now more technical thing and its kinda of gets weird but it goes like this: ten, nine, eight, seven, six, five, four, three, two, one. Alight, Kate, now I’ll tell ya, what I just did is to simply to synchronise the cameras is not magical and it doesn't mean ‘oh my god’ the countdown is here we’re… What we’re gonna do is we’re just going to record a bunch of stuff here and we can do some more tomorrow if we forget some today doesn't matter we can put it in if you think of something in twenty minutes that should have been said right up front it doesn't matter.

KG: Great

EH: We simply want to reduce the standard tape so that it doesn't get lost

KG: Yeah, yeah.

 EH: Okay? Um, and the big job lays ahead that's the edit, okay. So, I just want you to completely relax there's nothing that can't be done/redone if we sneeze, if we cough, if, you know, anything.

KG: That’s reassuring.

EH: If the ceiling caves in...

KG: [laughs]

EH: All we do is, is clean up the mess and keep on.

KG: Okay.

EH: So, everything here is real laidback. You've got a lot of information and we want to, we want to get this done into a story line because I think what we've got here is something that is extremely important for people to know.

KG: Yeah.

EH: Alright. Uh, let’s talk a little about you and, uh, let’s see now. You, where did you start out your life? Born and raised in the country?

KG: Yeah, I raised on and on a farm in fact I live in the same neighbourhood in which I grew up. It was my Grandfather's, um, farm. Part… part of it was divided into thirds but in nineteen thirty nine my grandfather, [who] was an obstetrician in Norfolk, he was also in the naval reserves, he was in charge of military intelligence, er, in, in Norfolk, which is the largest military naval complex in the world. So I was born in the naval hospital which is, was the NATO headquarters...

EH: Uh-huh.

KG: ...and brought home to my Grandparents farm. Uh, my Father was in the South China Sea’s on a naval vessel. My Uncle was in the Navy. I come from a long line of military/civilian, er, folks. They, they were not full time military individuals, they, they had jobs and they would go into the war they would be in reserve and as my grandfather was he stayed in and retired a Navy Captain but I live an in house that was in part of my Grandfather's field.

EH: That’s great.

KG: But I’m, I’m being strangled, financially, by, erm, the, this army intelligence group, JAG group, that my husband, erm…

EH: Now this JAG, is that J.A.G?

KG: JAG, judge, advocate, general. Erm, I think American citizens do not realize how many JAGs are in our court system and they take orders. They are in the chain of command, they’re active reserve and they’re in our court system everywhere you look...

EH: Judges federal and state?

KG: ...and local, everywhere, yeah and they're going to, erm, meetings once a month and if there is a case uh, like many of the military intelligence wise, like myself, and we have information that would come out in a, in a divorce hearing or whatever they totally control it inside. Judge John Moore in my case, um, in Virginia Beach, is a, is an Army Ranger. His, erm, he is active reserve he's VMI (Virgina Military Institute) army colonel. He's a graduate of VMI in Virginia Beach in the courts. There are at least six judges, and I'm, I'm including commissioners in that because in Virginia we have a system where the commissioners do the, erm, do the, a lot of the decisions and all of these in Virginia Beach, who take care of military wives, are military judge.

EH: Now, you mentioned the term VMI, what, what is that?

KG: Well VMI is Virgina Military Institue and it's where, erm, General Marshall, the Marshall Plan went to school, it's, it's a little west point there's a lot of tradition there, erm, but these based on, on the Greek sort of spartan military concept and my father went to Washington and Lee [University], which is also in Lexington, and i know that there is of some sort of, I won’t say cult, but there probably is some sort of, erm...

EH: Club?

KG: ...secret society...

EH: Okay.

KG: and, so it's very, very tight clique. Erm, but what I trying to say is that the judges are military men and they're not independent. They eight take orders...

EH: Orders.

KG: They’re on, there's a chain of command and in my particular case and the other eleven military wives that, who, whom I had met so far there many, many more, but, they've all been handled the same way.

EH: Uh-huh.

KG: Not, it's not a normal divorce, er, at all.

EH: I've, I've heard of these kinda situations before but never, it’s never been put so a concisely and so reasonably that there would be connection why some people just, no matter what attorney you have, it doesn't matter.

KG: Oh, no.

EH: The divorces in the settlements of assets never go the right way.

KG: No. And there's the FISA (Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court) court which I know is involved in, in my case.

EH: What kind of court?

KG: Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. It’s a justice department secret court that American citizens are not aware of. There have been a couple of articles on it. It's a small group of men and I think there's a woman on it. I believe there's seven justices and in reality the in the article that I read, which was given to me by Mike Fuller, and I know he would not mind using his name, he's at the government assassin, he was a, er, like my husband, a government assassin, who, er, did…

EH: When you say assassin are you talking character assassination or kill people?

KG: No, killing people.

EH: Uh-huh, Okay.

KG: He’s a, he’s a mercenary government mercenary.

EH: Okay.

KG: He was in Afghanistan and Rhodesia, South Africa, and I met him and his wife through Sarah McClendon. He’s a real wonderful patriot who is speaking out about what the NATO community and the Army and Marine Corps are doing.

EH: And Sarah McClendon she’s a, she’s an old horses, isn’t she?

KG: Sarah saved my life, literally.

EH: Really?

KG: Yeah. I had been having break-ins starting on, starting the night of March the fourth after I was calling everywhere to see if I could find my husband. He would, you know, disappear at times, and I found my husband's diary, which I have here, which they had been not anxious to have erm, get out.

EH: Uh-huh. Now ‘they’ meaning?

KG: The, well they, General Sheehan [John J. "Jack" Sheehan], General Krulak [Victor H. Krulak], Marine Corps Colonels, excuse me, Generals, er, Al Gray [Alfred M. Gray, Jr.], er, Cook [Donald G. Cook ] and especially General Joy.

EH: Joy.

KG: General Jim Joy and General Carl Stiner [General Carl Wade Stiner] are, they are evil men. And they are in this diary meeting with my husband almost every day in Beirut. They trained the Men in Black who killed those people in Waco. It was General Joy and General Steiner [General Felix Martin Julius Steiner?]. Steiner's army. Dirty tricks. Special Operations. And this is what my husband does for a living, is train mercenaries, young boys, from countries like Romania, Cuba, er, I mean, Dominican Republic, Haiti, all these countries. They’re training them to be murderers and taxpayers' dollars are paying for this.

EH: Okay, now they train them just through the normal channels of the military? These kids join the army or the Marine Corps and they select these kids based on some criteria to train them?

KG: They psychologically profile them. The profile, which is similar to my husbands and Lee Harvey Oswald’s and [Timothy] McVeigh’s and some of the others, who were all part of this program. Dahmer, Jeffrey Dahmer was profile then hidden, you know, they… what, what most Americans do not know is that all of these men are…

EH: Jeffrey Dahmer, he has a military background?

KG: Of course, they're all army.

EH: Oh, Okay.

KG: They were all picked out because they're perverted or twisted.

EH: Oh.

KG: Yeah.

EH: Sexual perverted?

KG: Sexually perverted and therefore, you know.

EH: Yeah.

KG: Well now, I don’t think McVeigh was perverted the way Dahmer was but certainly the group that my husband is overseeing are twisted.

EH: So they, part of the criteria is they look for people who've got something in their history that gives them a weird bend?

KG: Yeah.

EH: Like, they were molested when they were a child or they come from dysfunctional families, abuse…

KG: Strong mother, weak father or no father, poor, because these guys are looking for security. They will stay in the military and do anything…

EH: Okay.

KG: …for that security. This was my husband’s scenario. My husband and Oswald are just two peas in a pod. Exactly the same personality, the same type, in the same elite group, I might add, which was doing work with Communists and Russians and Czechoslovakians with Romanians. I met assassins, I met drug lords, [Manucher Ghorbanifar?] whose family were the drug lords in the Beqaa [Bekaa] valley. I mean, he knows the elite of the elite of the elite and that's why… I was warned, twice, not to talk.

EH: And you were warned, er…

KG: I was told that I that I would be killed. I was told…

EH: Your husband warned you about this? Or…

KG: My husband warned me early on and, but he knew that, erm, he loved me in the beginning. I'm sure he really did but he's, he's a robot, my husband. Except when he's drinking and I think that's why he drank because the first three years of marriage he was telling me everything and I come from a very strong protestants, southern culture which, you know when you're talking about shooting people like ducks… it, I, the only thing I can relate it to is my brother's going duck hunting.

 And that’s what George would tell me, it was like, killing is just like, you know it's nothing, there's no emotion involved, you just get rid of some body and he said he was an existentialist and that these murders were necessary and, you know it was very matter of fact, and I would sort of  go, “Uh-hum, yeah” and we’d be eating dinner and I was trying to get him to be, to know Christ, you know, sort of understand a little bit about my, my background and America’s background but he, his group are, they are not Christians.

 They’re what he calls existentialist. And they study German Clausewitz [Carl Philipp Gottfried von Clausewitz], Nietzsche [Friedrich Nietzsche], Sartre [Jean-Paul Charles Aymard Sartre], Camus [Albert Camus], er, Montesquieu [Charles-Louis de Secondat, Baron de La Brède et de Montesquieu] and his thesis at Princeton, which is a written for him by a very good friend of his named Todave, who is a French count, and his thesis was on this.

And supposedly it was in French but my French is better than his so he could not have written that by himself. I know that. I know that it was written for him. But in the intelligence world and in the Communist world and the world that my husband was in one had to know French because all of the terrorist trainers and they guys who were funding guerrillas and everything, were in Paris and New Orleans.

They would go back and forth, still the fourth marines is, is out of New Orleans. And that's been going on a long time ever since Disraeli [Benjamin Disraeli]. Even before, I think. They had hit squads and, you now, undercover groups in New Orleans. And George would go to New Orleans, all the marines, I mean, they had, this is where they train do terrorist training. Lake Pontchartrain and places like that.

  EH: Okay, this would be during the nineteen-eighties?

KG: Yeah, nineteen eighties

EH: Okay.

KG: From the nineteen, I think New Orleans has been a school for a place where debauchery and murder and cults…

EH: Flourish.

KG: Yeah.

EH: Well, there's a New Orleans connection with the J.F. Kennedy assassination.

 KG: Well, you see, Oswald, my husband and Oswald were in the same club. General Jim Joy is in that club, General Louis Buell [Louis H. Buehl III], who is my husband's benefactor, or whatever you want to call it, is in that club. There is a… in fact I’ve got the name of erm, there are Russians in that club.

EH: Feel free to grab any, you know, reference material.

KG: What I want to tell you about General Al Gray, my husband was a Chief of Staff for General Al Gray, who was a Commodore of the Marine Corps, and I shouldn’t probably say this on the tape, and you can all get rid of it, but he’s a homosexual.

EH: Gray?

KG: Gray. He’s what they call a ‘Cherry Marine’. Now I’m not anti… [looking through her belongings] I’m trying to find my… I hope I’ve got it. Yeah, here it is. Er, the, during the Vietnam War…

EH: Now this term, ‘Cherry Marine’ means…

KG: [chuckles]

EH: …that’s a common phrase that’s in the military?

KG: See, the thing is, I, you know, there are guys and there are girls. I just came from such a… [laughs] a real prudish culture. You know?

EH: Yeah, that’s fine. You came from a normal culture.

KG: And, and I'm not, not judging them but they, erm. The Vietnam War, I know a lot about that, about the MACSOG [Military Assistance Command, Vietnam – Studies and Observations Group] program and the Phoenix program because George was involved with this very important part of that, not important really but he and Al Gray and Louis Buell and Michael O'Boyle and [Olly Whipple] were… do you remember the mengaze and peubo, was it the…?

EH: Oh, the seizure of that little ship?

KG: Yes. This was, it’s run by the mob, then. It was a mob/military, er, partnership. Joint [American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee], it was a joint operation. In Korea and in Vietnam. The highest levels of the Marine Corps and the army, in those special operations levels, the individuals are actually in the mob, New Jersey…

EH: You talking about the mafia type mob?

KG: I’m talking about the Brooklyn/New Jersey mob. My husband, Al Gray, Sheehan, they’re all… Brooklyn, Cap Weinberge [Caspar W. "Cap" Weinberge], Heinz Kissinger. There’s the Boston mob which were shipping weapons back and forth to Northern Ireland. And I don’t want to get too deeply involved in that but it goes… Israel, some of the Zionists who came over from Germany, according to my husband, were… see he works with those people.

They do a lot of money laundering in the banks, cash transactions for the drugs that they're bringing over, through Latin America, that the southern Mafia, the Dixie Mafia, which is now my husband's involved with in Miami. The military are all involved at once they retire. They, you know, they go into this drug and the secondary weapon sales. And, before I forget, I want to find the name of this Russian who worked with Al Gray, who was my husband’s boss, and [looking through her notes] trying to see where it wrote it. I may have to look and find that another…

EH: It’s no trouble at all. [to staff] How are we doing, sounding good? How much time has rolled on the clock? On your clock? You can speak.

OC: Twenty minutes.

EH: Okay.

KG: I can’t find it right now. I’ll find it. The Vietnam [War] was really important because a lot of experiments were done on boys who went over there. I had, since my husband disappeared and since they had been psychologically trying to destroy me, financially trying to destroy me, because I'm telling the truth.

The, his first wife I know was murdered. She was, according to psychiatrist, whose name I probably won't give because he's an honourable man, I was given permission before I went public with Sarah McClendon at the press club, anonymously, but they knew who I was on the third of July nineteen ninety six, was when I came out with as small group of people.

But before that time they were trying to handle me, to try and get me to be quiet, they tried threatening me and so forth. And I’m trying to remember where I was, what I was going to, the point I was going to make. I can’t remember now. It was something important. Oh, yeah, General Jim Joy. I called General Jim Joy on the phone trying to find where my husband was because I didn't know whether I had money to eat, you know, food to eat or what.

He just walked away and I knew that the Marine Corps knew where he was but I was being handled psychologically. On the fourth of March my home is broken into. They had elaborate plans to handle me.

EH: The fourth of March ninety six?

KG: Nineteen ninety six.

EH: Ninety six.

KG: And keep in mind he had disappeared on the twenty-eighth of December.

EH: Of ninety-six?

KG: Yeah, ninety six/ninety five.

EH: Okay, uh-huh.

KG: So put yourself in my shoes. I had no idea where he is. He’s done this before and each time I was totally traumatized. So I get…

EH: What happened during this break-in?

KG: Well, they were looking for the diary, which I have here.

EH: Okay.

KG: I don't have the original copy but this is the diary.

EH: Okay. Can you lift it up so we can…

KG: Yeah, sure.

EH: Yeah, just…

KG: This is it, it’s his Beirut diary.

EH: Can you hold it up so…

KG: Yeah, [hold it up to camera a rafts through the pages] this is it.

EH: Okay.

KG: And it’s in his handwriting. The Beirut diary tells how the intelligence community the Army and Marine Corps assassins, snipers are, how they operate in the city during a crisis. My husband was the liaison between the White House and president Jamal. So he, my husband is a friend of spoke off Scowcroft [Lieutenant General Brent Scowcroft], McFarlane [Colonel Robert C. McFarlane], Ledeen [Michael Ledeen] all of these men are personal friends of George’s. Colby [William Colby], I spoke with personally on the phone. Two weeks later was murder. He went to Princeton, my husband knew him, he knew my husband. He told me, Colby told me that…

EH: This is General Colby?

KG: No, this is William Colby who was head of the CIA.

EH: Oh, Okay, yeah.

KG: Who was murdered in a…

EH: So called boating accident.

KG: I know exactly how that happened because, you see the SEAL teams, SEAL team six… four, six and eight are on the east coast and then the odd numbers are on the west coast. And some of the people who affiliated with the SEALs… [pauses]

EH: Uh-huh.

KG: I should say that. I'm not going to say it. But…

EH: Are you saying it wouldn’t be hard for a SEAL to come from underwater and tip the boat over and make sure that the man is dead, that sort of thing?

KG: The Israelis train with the SEALs. They do a lot of wet ops – murders.

EH: Okay.

KG: Over here. Because of some sort of arrangement the young boys… I met three young assassins on a bus going up, back and forth as I went on the bus because they were sabotaging my car so often. So I sat next to two young assassins, one from Romania, one from Haiti and I let them know that I understand, you know, how it is and this little boy cried. I won’t mention which one it was because it may get back to him… but, he told me, it was the same scenario, his mother, he lives on eight hundred and fifty dollars a month. Now these are mercenaries, working, the taxpayers are paying mercenaries.

The taxpayers are paying young men, who are not citizens of the United States, to kill innocent people, women and children. They get on a flight from Norfolk and Oceania, they fly to Stuttgart, and I was told this, this is what they do. Then they go by a special helicopter to countries like Turkey, like part of Iraq, to Algeria, to parts of Africa and they do wet ops, you know, murder five, ten, twenty people and then they blame it on the Arabs or they blame it on somebody else but it's actually NATO rouge assassins. Because they are men from Australia, South Africa, Britain, that I’ve been able to determine, and a lot of these other little countries that are sort of wanting to get into NATO, who, they have little boys that they pick out and they call them ‘special’. They use the word special meaning, elite, irregular, in order to entice these boys because they don't have much ego.

So if you've called being a criminal, in other words they are protected. They know if they are above the law, That's what they, my husband’s above the law. Judge John Moore is above the law. Colonel Barry Kantor, my husband's JAG Colonel, lawyer, is above the law. Grover Right, Marine Corps, all of these… a lot of these guys, who are judges, had their wives gotten rid of. Judge John Moore had his first wife thrown into a mental institution before he became a judge. He battered her. He, and, and I spoke with a man who has a purple heart, who, two people, who knew Hannah very well, and Hannah Moore was deeply in love with her husband. He got back from Vietnam, he was an Army Ranger. He battered her. He physically and psychologically abused her. And she started screaming, you know, doing what I… because I was battered and bruised.

A lot of wives are, by these, these Vietnam Vets. But if their approval or if they are rising star the wife has got to be crazy. Because they’ve got too much invested in these men and it's a very small cult. I mean, they have heard the things that they do when they're Colonels. It's some of the same things that they do capping down, which is the Princeton version of Skull and Bones.

My husband went to Princeton, after he went to behind school for four years.

EH: Okay, you know, we should probably clarify a little bit about… you mentioned Skull and Bones and many of the people wouldn’t be familiar with that, and the cap and gown, so what are these… are these clubs that these young inductees are pulled into secret societies…

KG: Secret societies and…

EH: And, again, is this to make them feel super special.

KG: Yes.

EH: And also put a control on them so that you never tell these secrets.

KG: Yes, that’s it. You have got it.

EH: You know, I have heard a lot of child molesters, I mean people who are not connected to the military, just plain old child molesters will molest a child then tell them ‘if you ever tell’ you know, they’ll take a cat and strangle it and kill it or something, ‘this is what I am going to do to your mother, this is what I’ll do to you. Bad things will happen if you ever tell.’

KG: That’s right.

EH: And children grow up believing that, ‘I must never ever tell’ and they don’t, generally.

KG: That’s right.

EH: Unless someone comes along to help them… see the light come out.

KG: Yes. And you see my husband is frightened to death, I believe that his brother was murdered to keep him in. Because he had gone through four years of this mind control and that the man who did it all, you can see this on the video, his name was Charles Caddock and another man named Alexander Robinson.

EH: Okay, Charles Caddock

KG: Charles Caddock.

EH: And the other one.

EH: Alexander Robinson. Alexander Robinson was a marine, very well connected, Presbyterian family, whose family member was the influential one who brought over the Saudis. The original Saudi, head of Saudi Arabia, was very… George told me all this about Mohamed Faisal [Prince Mohamed al-Faisal], Khalid Faisal [Prince Khalid al-Faisal] and Saad Faisal [Prince Saad bin Faisal] there were something like thirty two brothers of, the then, in the in the mid fifties, the ordained, you know whoever was head of Saudi Arabia [King Faisal of Saudi Arabia], it was actually the United States who chose that person because the United States, through Charles Caddock from that group, murdered the good one, the one who was, whom everybody liked, well educated and who was normal.

In, I believe it was nineteen fifty two, nineteen fifty three, nineteen fifty four, in Paris, the universal Saudi, the well-educated Saudi was poisoned.

EH: And what was his name…

KG: Charles Caddock was… er…

EH: I don’t suppose it was all that important.

KG: I'm trying to remember I think it was, er… Faheem… or... he died in Paris and so his brother, his half brother, or whatever, who the father of all these thirty two boys and the three oldest were snuck into the United States. I have a degree in history, Virginia history, undergraduate degree and masters in Scottish history and being a southerner we always look at, you know… past is prologue. And I jumped into the Saudi Arabian books to try and find out something about the Hun School, which is in Princeton, started by physicists, connected with Einstein and that group.

So I was looking for the Hun School because I knew they went there and there in all the brochures, because they were very proud to say, you know, we have the Saudi royals went here. President [Cheeseborough?] brags about going over there and being wined and dined and, you know. So I, I only found one reference but it was a reference that said something like ‘went to a prep school in the United States’ that all they said.

Well it was the Hun School. My husband was one of the play mates. Charles Caddock was the bodyguard, quote-unquote teacher.

EH: Uh-huh.

KG: For these guys. So they would go out and play in woods and they were doing homosexual things with them. You know, I mean there was a lot of money, they bought a big house and so.

EH: I was momentarly distracted, so…

KG: Okay.

EH: Explain to me a little about this the homosexual event here.

KG: Well, George for the first three years at marriage was drinking entirely too much and he, he was trying to let me know about his world and I’m not judging him. He a bisexual and…

EH: He needed help.

KG: He needed help, he needed love, he needed…

EH: Still does.

KG: He still does. He really needs help. And the handlers knew that I was changing him I was taking him away from this crazy cult that he’d been in all these years. And I mean we were going to church, he even walked down the aisle one time when Tony Evans preached at scope. I mean he was overwhelmed, and…

EH: At scope?

KG: At scope in Norfolk. It's a big auditorium.

EH: Okay.

KG: And so. But he was a little boy when he was… its mind control. MKUltra somebody said. They had a group of men, psychiatrist in New Jersey. I don't know where this place was but they would go and… even his roommates in Princeton told me about it. George never in, intentionally, he never introduced me to any of his friends so I had to cold call all these people. I got their names, addresses, telephone numbers, I called all his roommates at the Hun School at Princeton. They tell me things about George and, you know, holding hands with, you know, with Caddock and other people about being a cheerleader and going off and so forth.

EH: Now a cheerleader, this is a betrayed name, right?

KG: No he was a cheerleader for the, er…

EH: At Princeton.

KG: At Princeton. And he travelled with the football team.

EH: Okay.

KG: And here is a guy like that they put in the Marine Corps? I don't think that was very nice. Do you know what I'm saying? It was hard for him.

EH: But it was part of the…

KG: Part of the…

EH: Part of the long term vision.

KG: Absolutely. They wanted him long-term and it’s because of the Saudis. This is what I believe and what his roommate believes.

He had a roommate at Princeton who was also at the Hun, who's a dear, dear wonderful… His, his mother, and his mother is, is an Anglican his father was a Jewish doctor from Brooklyn. And Jack is a deer. And we talk to each other a lot on the phone. George sort of dismissed him because George was getting in with another crowd.

George got into Cap and Gown which is the same kind of fraternity.  I mean it's a eating club at Princeton for intelligence officers.

EH: In Cap and Gown did they have anybody involved who wasn't intelligence oriented?

KG: Football players, and so forth.  But I have a feeling that Cap and Gown has a lot of intelligence officers and boys who may have been raped. Of course, they'd never talk about it.

EH: Right.

KG: But I know that in the initiation they get very drunk, even in the Marine Corp they do that, it's called "’Dining in.’ They have the ‘shellback’ ceremony. They do a lot of homosexual enticement. The boys, when they come in, when they are new recruits, they strip them nude, they violate their personal parts, and a lot of that is going on even now.

EH: What about ‘tailhook’?

KG: Yeah.

EH: Is there a connection?

KG: Yeah, sure! Because the ‘cream of the crop’ is doing this. They are having group sex parties.

EH: That was a Navy operation too, wasn't it?

KG: Yeah but the Navy and the Marine Corps do…

EH: Of course maybe we ought to…

KG: That’s another…

EH: They don’t know anything about tailhook was, refresh our memories.

KG: Well, tailhook, I, when I was single, in Norfolk, erm, I know one of the people who was deeply involved with tailhook. Who is, was Captain of the [Seritoga?], was very much involved in this kind of behaviour and I know a lot about the… see I never, I never put, I never thought about group sex. This is so awful. For me to contemplate that these orgies are going on all over the Mediterranean that the Captains, Lieutenants, the men who rise to the top are the ones who are picked to play the games, the pool parties, the nude pool parties. They have the secretaries are come in. I’ve talked to three guys, and of course my husband, who went to these parties. They, what they do is, and this is General Al Gray, who was the main prime mover, they would go to a place like [eslaerosae?] where Charles Caddock, this teacher who induct, got my husband in to it. He retired in one of these all-male party houses, on Mediterranean, I mean, that’s where he, and my husband kept up with him, all through the years.

EH: These sex parties and orgies they’re all homosexual in nature or, or is there some heterosexual?

KG: Well, they start off with, what with, the wild secretaries. It’s kind of, you know, my husband did those in Indonesia, he did them in a place in Northern Virginia with this first wife. I did not know any of this. I knew absolutely none of this. When I married him. He told me he was loyal to his wife, he wanted me to think he was apple pie because I’m just a one man woman. When I when I took that oath to marry him: love, honour, obey. That’s me. But he, when he was married his first wife, was just an addict. He was a sexual addict, an alcoholic addict, he loved terror and his whole little soul was just being sucked away from him, desperately. And he really he needs Christ. He needed, he needed me day-in and day out. He did not need to be… what he's doing now is in running more of these operations

EH: You know as you described this I can’t help but think of Bill Clinton.

KG: well of course he was, he was one of those profiled boys. But the difference between Bill Clinton, and I'm not saying Bill Clinton's better, but Bill Clinton did not go, he didn't know anything about the assassinations. Bill Clinton, when I was living with Sarah McClendon, senior White House correspondent who saved my life, because she said ‘Misses Griggs, you get up here to Washington right now or you're dead. You’re going to be dead’. And I still feel as though I probably will be. I'll certainly be financially ruined. They are still doing psychological operations in my home, sabotaging my car, messing with my telephone, my radio. You cannot believe what I have been through in the last two years. It is horrible. And it’s being done to other women and other wives and other men who don't go along with the program. They are murdering marines, they're murdering sailors.

EH: Of course one of the best ways for you to stay alive is to do what you’re doing.

KG: Really?

EH: Oh, absolutely. Produce a video gets this scattered all over the country they won't touch it because if you're dead that validates everything you're saying, see. So…

KG: Well they poisoned people.

EH: Publicity is the best thing you can do.

KG: Yeah, I, one of the things they were happening to me after… Oh! I must tell you about General Joy. I found his name all through the diary and what was really strange was that George had mentioned him for earlier, early on marriage. But then after a certain incident at

Camp Lejeune, which I think is very interesting relating to tailhook and something that I did there, I’ll tell you about that if I can remember. I called, it took me a lot to get General Joy’s phone number because the Marine Colonels we're not going to tell me because they knew I was investigating.

EH: Uh-huh

KG: So nobody would tell me about General Joy I called a person in George’s address book, who is a General, pretending that you know I was updating my Christmas card list and I just wanted to find Jim Joy’s telephone number. He said, ‘Oh, he’s just up there, he's running morale welfare recreation for the world.’ You know a payoff job with the mob and he's not living outside of Quantico and here's the phone number. So I call him up and keep in mind my husband is infamous, Princeton graduate, Chief of Staff for Al Gray, who runs all the dirty tricks for the Army, you know. Linda Tripp worked for Carl Stiner, who is a partner of Jim Joy and Carl Stiner and my husband were the triumvirate in Beirut.

EH: Okay.

KG: And Linda Tripp worked for Carl Stiner down there.

EH: This would be approximately?

KG: In the eighties. She and her husband were both delta force duos. They send them but then they divorced so that broke up that. But she, she’s a dirty tricks person, Linda. Anyway, so called General Joy and I say, ‘General Joy this is Kay Griggs and I’m George Griggs’ wife, you know, Chief of Staff under Al Gray, head of half the world/dirty tricks/special operations/wet ops’. And he goes, ‘No, I don’t believe I know your husband.’ Exactly his words. And I'm taping it by the way. Because they took my tape. They started coming in and doing, putting sticky stuff and running like, you know, just mind jagging me.

EH: Including the sticky stuff?

KG: On the tapes and they would put the tapes in different, you know they would go to a lot of trouble they would take things that I said on one tape and put it on another and… anyways they were having fun with me, psychologically. But I taped this conversation with General Joy and I said both, ‘That's really strange General Joy that you don't know my husband because I'm sitting here on my bed and I'm looking at my husband's diary that he kept the whole time he was in Beirut and you’re, you're in there on almost every page, you know, you're in there a lot. And you're going over to Cyprus and Rome and you’re, you know, getting money for weapons and, you know, and you’re going to Tel Aviv and they're doing this in that. And, you know, you mean you don't know my husband George Griggs and you’re a Marine he's a [unintelligible]?’ He went, ‘Oh, that George Griggs.’ Because he knew I had the diary.

EH: I see.

KG: Then he said, ‘Oh, Miss Griggs let me call you back, let me. Let me call you back.’ So he had to confirm with General Sheehan, General Joy, General [Gayman?], General Hartzog and his little cabal. Particularly General Gray and General Krulak. So, he called me back and he was just like a little puppy dog he said, ‘Oh Miss Griggs, I’m going to be in Norfolk on the, now let’s see, the night of the fifth, sixth and seventh. I’ll be at morale welfare recreation

meeting at the Mattiott Hotel and I would like to meet with you when I get there, you know I'll be getting in around five o'clock and I can meet, we could go to dinner or you could come and have breakfast next morning. You know, we could eat, blah, blah, blah. Or eleven o'clock. Now I have to speak at this luncheon engagement, you’re welcome to come to that or we can meet at…’ He went through every hour of the whole time. He could not had been more insistent about meeting me. If he’d have been my father, you know, my birthday or something.

EH: So you did meet?

KG: I did. But I was afraid of him because I knew he was an assassin.

EH: This is General Joy?

KG: General Jim Joy the one who got Noriega [Manuel Antonio Noriega] of Panama. He and Sheehan the one who is behind the whole operation in Panama. This is a powerful guy. He and Carl Stiner, [mutt?] and Jeff.

Waco, they trained all the guys. Waco and did what they did to David Koresh

The other ones behind all the black helicopters, Sheehan. The other ones, you know, doing all this stuff down there at Kathy McDaniel’s down at, you know, and Fort Polk, Fort Hud.

EH: Something new on me, Kevin McDonald, McDaniels?

KG: Kathy McDaniels had a little talk show. She’s the wife, the daughter of the mayor down there at Fort Polk. The little town outside of Fort Polk.

EH: Okay.

KG: And there were a lot of unusual things happening and because she was talking about it they took her radio show off the air. They tried to, it’s a long story but. Anyway, so General Joy got in contact with the NCIS [Naval Criminal Investigative Service].

EH: That’s Fort Polk in Louisiana?

KG: Yes. But I met with the NCIS guy and a marine that I just met, cold call. ‘Cause I was kinda worried about what would happen to me, you know, meeting him.

[intermittent break]

OC: [unintelligible]

EH: We’re rolling? All three cameras are rolling right now? They rolling?

OC: Yep.

EH: Great check-in. Here we go. Okay, now Steve. Come on over here and take a quick glance at the uh... at this monitor. Notice how she’s framed here? Is mine corresponding about the same?

OC: [unintelligible]

EH: So when we cut back and forth we are…

OC: [unintelligible]

EH: Okay, just take it wide. No, no, she’s just right.

OC: [unintelligible]

EH: I’m a little bigger than her so I may sit a little taller in the chair.

OC: [unintelligible]

EH: Okay, yeah. We’re not splitting hairs over it. Okay, we’re rolling? Ten, nine, eight, seven, six, five, four, three, two, one. Ignition, we have lift off, we’re rolling. Thank you, this is part number two of this interview. Alright. Now we have discussed, just a little bit of a recap here. A little bit about your background, about the psychological profile these guys look for, let’s see, we discussed the diary, we've discussed a Caddock and Alexander er…

KG: Robbinson.

EH: Robbinson, couldn’t read my writing, thank you. And er…

KG: I have a picture of Caddock.

EH: I have noted that, we should inject that. In fact we should have a little session here where we just go through pictures at the table with us. We discussed tailhook.

KG: You know what tailhook mean’s, don’t you?

EH: No, what is tailhook?

KG: [laughs]

EH: Oh-o. I got a feeling is it a homosexual reference?

KG: Yeah, sure!

EH: Did you know that, Steve? Isn’t that something? The average person on the street has no idea. It’s like Watergate, well the Watergate Hotel, that makes sense. And tailhook, that’s probably some reference to… you know what I honestly thought it was? When you refuel a jet.

KG: It is, it is. You see, the planes look like this [draws a picture but screen resolution is too low to make it out]. I was told this by [Jerry Andrew?] and Jerry Andrew was a Captain when I met him. We were just partying, you know. I had a group of gals and we all school friends and everybody hung around this place called Poppies in Virginia Beach. It was the place in the mid eighties when I was at the Virginia Center for World Trade. Well he, Jerry was in there, he's an intelligence operative with Scowcroft, Scraw, you know, this whole… McFarlane, Ed Wilson [Edwin P. "Ed" Wilson] he's a really good friend of my husband who's a really bad guy. Anyway they’re all, some of them were doing this rush for the lodge thing, which Angleton [James Angleton] was doing where Woodward [Bob Woodward] would go to have these big orgy parties. And George went to a few of those. But this, you see, is the plane and it kinda looks like that [resolution too low to see].

EH: Okay.

KG: And it refules.

EH: Uh-huh.

KG: See, that’s what the hook is for.

EH: That’s called the tailhook?

KG: Yes.

EH: Uh-huh.

KG: But it has a double meaning.

EH: A double entendre, sure.

KG: Because… and I went to the proceeding show two weeks ago and they had the tailhook booth and I have some stuff, I don't think I have it with me, but tailhook souvenirs. Because they are they're really trying to promote that, you know, the ‘charitable’ function of that organisation.

EH: Yes, of course. Now the fact that that cover got blown on those tailhook things…

KG: [unintelligible]

EH: Was a major snafus, right

KG: She had to try very hard to get that out.

EH: That was at Camp Lejeune?

KG: No, I think it was in Las Vegas.

EH: Okay.

KG: Oh, but my thing went on in Camp Lejeune, well, for tailhook and this is why I got flagged.

EH: Oh?

KG: Because I stopped all the go-go dancers and the Officers club and they got very mad with me.

EH: Ooo.

KG: I can tell you that story, it's true.

EH: But why… you didn't realise what you're doing at the time?

KG: No, I was just incensed, you know, that they would allow topless women, young girls in the office club dining room while I was trying to eat late one night. And George says, ‘Well you know, you just have to get used to it if you think this is anything you ought to see what you want to see what goes on in Okinawa.’ Well this was, this was on ninety-one? Ninety… it was before tailhook. And the lord is always with me sometimes I don't know where he is but this particular night it was that nine o'clock and I was starving and I was really mad because his reaction wasn’t, ‘I’m sorry. This is offensive. Do you want to go in town to eat or something’. He didn't do that, he attacked me. It was a chance to educate me the way they were educated.

EH: I see.

KG: Get used to it bitch, you know, Excuse my French. But that’s really what he was trying to do. Well they were all young married officers. Now, I worked at the chamber and this is taxpayer money, this looks bad, they had, you know, wedding bands on and one of the guys, two of the guys goes out with one of the girls. So I'm going, after having said, ‘don't you see anything wrong with this picture.’ And getting no background I thought, ‘Oh, wait I’ve got a camera in my pocketbook. I am going to see Martin [Ugie?] my old roommate from Saint Mary's, little [unintelligible] from junior college in Raleigh, North Carolina, and I said, ‘Whoa! little Lucille Ball comes out I’d just kinda grabbed that little camera with the flash and I get me three little flashes of scattering people. So…

EH: Just because the camera’s gone off?

KG: Yes! So that said to me, it proved to him God, truth is light, light is truth, you know. Hey, this isn’t, I mean God proved it. I didn't do it. I didn’t argue. I just took pictures, they scattered. Then what happened…

EH: What happened to the pictures?

KG: Well, he, I, he tried to grab my camera.

EH: He?

KG: My husband.

EH: Right.

KG: But there were still some men in there, you see, and two of the girls and they were looking at me like, ‘you are…’ The girls are probably thinking, ‘Umm, now’ but the guys, they saw older Colonel, Chiefs of Staff here. Wife. It was bad from the perspective of me being a wife witnessing this being ordered to, to shut up.

EH: Huh.

KG: So  I took the camera when he wanted to grab it from me. And I went like this [gestures moving the camera away]. I mean it was real battle time. Major, my brother was a championship wrestler, you know. And I don't know anything about holds but I knew this is self-preservation time. And I just said, ‘Well, I'm going to the ladies room. Ha!’ So I went to the ladies room and I hid the darn thing. And he wanted to know where it was. We had major battle but the end thing that happened was I wrote a nice letter, found out the name of the manager of the club because I knew protocol. I knew you can’t go and just really mess everybody up. And I sent a letter saying, ‘Is this normal?’ To have it, to the club manager. But I sent copies of the pictures and the letter to the wife of the General of the Commander of the base and the wife of the commodore.

EH: You wanted to get in trouble!

KG: With the pictures. No, I mean…

EH: Oh, you thought you were…

KG: Helping the wives.

EH: Yeah, the wives at this point are privy to all of this stuff, right?

KG: Yeah. See, I thought in the real world this is what you do. Somebody… But what happened was I went home and the wives were meeting there and I told him what I had done and Caroline Miller said, ‘Oh! No, you didn’t do that, did you? George won’t get promoted.’ You know he was trying to make General.

EH: Uh-huh.

KG: But Louis Buehl had already died and he wouldn't have made general anyway. Because of Sue had already found out about that. But I didn’t know that at the time.

EH: Uh-huh.

KG: But Charlotte Moore whose family are better educated and she's kind of the leader of the pack because she's, she's more rational than the rest of wives. She said, ‘Kay, thank you very much. We appreciate what you did, for us.’ And then all the rest of them kind ache… you know, they're like little puppets too. But then I found out from Brooks West that I was, that I was flagged. That General Gray had me marked as a trouble maker.

EH: Got ya.

KG: So after that no more stories while he's drinking, you know, it was a, it was a very, he was having to balance them and me. You know, he was… I think he was challenged by me because he, you know, he knew that I was a free spirit he didn't understand Christ he didn't understand what, what my boundaries are. But, because he was a little bit intimidated by my, my sense of freedom and my, you know, openness. Which comes from a complete understanding of where Christ is in my life, you know. And I do, I follow in his footsteps and… but I know I'm a free spirit because I'm created independently, as we all are. And he never had, my husband never had my husband never had that ability to,

to be free from the time he was a teenager.

EH: Because early on he was made captive to these other…

KG: Yes.

EH: Matters. Homosexual encounters and the shame that that brings in the control so use of the bent twig early on.

KG: And he had, the Saudis were beginning to pile into Russell House at the Hun School in Princeton, which is the school that my husband was, was in for four years on scholarship. He never saw his parents in eight years. Now think about this his parents were shipped to California. I believe strategically so that they could control his mind.

EH: Okay.

KG: He was too poor to fly out there I think he did go one time when he was ROTC [Reserve Officers' Training Corps] on a flight that took him forever and a day to get out there. But he had an uncle later on who bought a house in Princeton, when he was in college so he had a little bit of, of nurturing. And this article became his father.

EH: Okay.

KG: And his uncles two sons and the next door neighbour, the next-door neighbour became his wife. He knew he had to marry because of what he had gone through and it was, I think so shameful and so hard on him, that he married right at graduation day practically from Princeton University. Where he spent four years in ROTC. And he was in the Cap and Gown club, which, as I mentioned before, is an intelligence sort of football kind of scholarship club. But what's interesting is my uncle, who is in intelligence, Dan Delaney went through exactly the same hoops. I was thinking, you know, when I met my husband, this is, and it probably was a guiding in many ways, but I thought, ‘isn't it amazing that Uncle Dan, who was the football quarterback star for Princeton, the one year they won the whole national thing. He was, he went to the Hun School. His father and mother were both killed or something happened to them, and I think they were fairly well-to-do prominent family. He was handsome, wonderful, just a neat man. So he went on a scholarship to the Hun. And then, and he went  in with crew and all these other things. He was in Cap and Gown. He was, he played on the football team. He wasn’t a cheerleader my husband was a cheerleader but they were in exactly, they were exactly the same pattern. ROTC scholarship. They went, left ROTC scholarship. They were depending on the government, on the intelligence community, you know, selling weapons to whatever country. I know the country but in other words they were doing worked for the joint, under the table, all these years.

EH: Okay Directly  under whose instructions to sell these weapons? Do you know that?

KG: Yeah.

EH: Okay, who would that be?

KG: Well, er, it’s an Israeli, Zionist group in New York.

EH: MOSAD?

KG: Well…

EH: What were they…

KG: Yeah, but everybody thinks MOSAD like they think CIA is just a bogus sort of thing. It’s really Army Intelligence. It does just about everything. They run this, they run a lot of the psychological profiling which is done it Quantico with the FBI it's, it’s all a very small group. Harvard professors connected with, you know, the… Tavistock and Dar es Salaam and there’s a sexual perversion group in Vienna and one in Colorado. I think that little girl was part of that experiment, you know who that is?

EH:  JonBenét Ramsey?

KG: Yeah, yeah, because I had some…

EH: Well you know that raises an interesting point because here's a high-profile murder that goes nowhere. No investigation. Nobody’s pinned. It just goes on and on and on.

KG: The parents are involved in that program.

EH: But somewhere in that is protecting them.

KG: Absolutely.

EH: And the same thing that you're describing about the military if you’re in the clique you can get away with murder.

KG: Sure, absolutely. Absolutely. Murder, literally murder.

EH: Uh-huh.

KG: And, I had a group of visitors… I used to be set up by the state department, my husband, who had power in the state department, through both Caspar Weinberger [Caspar Willard "Cap" Weinberger] and… well, his whole crowd, that, I mean Caspar Weinberger, George Bush, Colby, Casey… my husband was in that clique. He was in the Princeton; Marine Corps clique. Rob Warner [Mark Robert Warner], you know…

EH: You’re talking about Senator Rob?

KG: Yeah, they were all in the Maine Corps clique. Pat Robertson [Marion Gordon "Pat" Robertson], all fourth Marines and mean they're all involved in this. They're know, if they’re running everything…

EH: Now you mention Pat Robertson, you’re talking about the seven hundred club, Pat Robertson?

KG: Uh-huh. Yeah. There’s a power thing there and it's all-male, it’s all white and there, they do… they know the murders are going on. They’re surgical, they’re strategic, they’re political but what I was going to tell you is I was used because I was most gullible in high school and I’m very, very spiritual and I love people so… and I was driven to meet all these people from all of the world for some reason. So they would feed me people because they knew I would react. It’s kind of like Monica and Bill, I think they put Monica in there to have something on Bill. That's my own felling. Sarah McClendon feels the same way.

EH: Uh-huh.

KG: Because…

EH: and Linda Tripp was there to guide the situation?

KG: Absolutely, of course. Linda Tripp was Delta Force. Linda Tripp was trained by Carl Stiner, who’s in the diary with my husband. Carl Stiner is called a snake and he tried to trip up Schwarzkopf. I mean, he was trying to take to, take the whole Iraqi thing over because they had been baiting, you know, using their, the Israeli rouges in Turkey. They were having a little zigzag wars… It's all to sell weapons. It’s all about weapon sales, it's all about drugs, it's all about funny money.

EH: Making money?

KG: Of course. And the head, Krulak, who is the commodore of the Marine Corps, his father, Victor Krulak, worked with this Russian/Czechoslovakian double agent who was, worked with Al Gray, who is enlisted at that time, rose right up to the top because they were involved with [Bucharr?] and this whole crowd that was trying pick fights. And they were not, they were Army and Navy together. Joint. And George kept saying, George calls them ‘the members of the firm.’  He calls them ‘the members of the firm’ I’ve heard the brotherhood. They’re very close. It's a small group and it's very hierarchical. I had Caspar Weinberger's bodyguard ‘farm’ me when I was at Sarah McClendon’s.

EH: Now ‘farm’ you?

KG: Yes, that’s a term that they use the where the…

EH: Where they cultivate?

KG: They cultivate… well, not cultivate but just want to find out, kind of… They're doing profiling on me, women are hard to profile because we're very easy, weak. We very easy if you understand women and I think they need more women intelligence because we solve a lot of these problems like overpopulation, or whatever it is, very quickly. Because we’re the ones you teach the men and how to talk, how to communicate, we think on twenty levels at once, you know, we're very spiritual, we’re very practical all at the same time and they make mistakes by pegging women as crazy when really there very anxious to solve problems, they're just very frustrated to see a lot of wacko things going on that don't need to be going on but the guys don't see it. So with my husband, and so forth, I was used, they profiled me, they knew I loved international people, because I had already demonstrated that, and there was a group of sexual psychologist, psychiatrist in Vienna who came over. I have pictures of them. I was their escort. George was already gone and I was intrigued that they were still sending me people.

EH: Okay, now you refer them as sexual psychologist.

KG: Yeah, there’s a whole  range of psychiatrist who study perversion.

EH: Okay.

KG: Sexual perversion. Harvard, Yale Johns Hopkins and this Colorado group. Dar es Salaam, where they train the Africa, the black African terrorists. They train them in interrogation. They train the JAGs in interrogation  methods and so forth and a lot of these guys got their experience the in Vietnam. Intentionally it took these little boys, that's what they're doing in Bosnia right now. They’re training future leaders in perversion. They have the school, the British have a school that George was working with in Indonesia for a year. My husband was setting up a, there was already a program on East Timor, a little place there in the mountains, that had been set by the Australians during world war two. It was involved, I think, with Burma and some of the killings that we're going on in China and so forth that Parker Host, T. Parker Host [Thomas Parker Host, Sr, this man who now control my husband with Bob Edwards [Robert Edwards]. T. Parker Host… this is how they got together. T. Parker Host, I knew when I was the assistant director of the Virginia Center for World Trade. I was first woman on the board at the Foreign Commerce Club, I was very involved, politically, and I was having a ball. And I met T. Parker Host through someone else. I was the chairman of board of all these international shippers and brokers I was just a, you know, sort of a glorified secretary/public relations person. Now T. Parker Host was the Finish Consul and he… at one time he’d been the Norwegian Consul, the Icelandic Consul. Ii thought he was a really nice guy because he was outgoing, he's seen as a Virginian. I didn't know that much about him. But it turns out he has one shipping agency, when I mean in a [five?]. He knows my husband's profession instantly because he brags about being with the mobs, the mob runs the port of Norfolk. The, I mean… it's terrible to say the bankers and then that, then they have, this is not… I can’t say that.

EH: You can’t say what?

KG: Nahh, it's… the ports are run by, it’s a homosexual hierarchy.

EH: Okay, it makes sense. That’s without objection.

KG: Well, Okay. And in Norfolk its Walter [Crise?] and Phil [Hornfall?], you know, they have the rich ones then they get the little ones in my introducing into that to the big guys. It's like, George met Einstein. Einstein was in that little, that little ring that the Saudis were in. It was a very elite, Camus…

EH: Now you’re saying Einstein?

KG: Albert Einstein…

EH: Okay.

KG: …was in that little Princeton ring before he died. George… they partied together. Anyway, so the Norfolk crowd runs the port. It's very organized and so forth. And I knew the person who was running the Maritime association shipping agency, very nice man who was that way but I didn't know it, you know. I went out with him I’d like him very much and he's a very nice person but, you know, and I…

EH: And completely homosexual?

KG: Completely. But, but he'd liked me and I thought he was wonderful…

EH: Many homosexuals are very engaging people.

KG: Yes, he’s a very, very nice guy. Well, his best friend was T. Parker Host. He lived with him for a while. Well, I didn’t think anything about Parker 'cause you know he'd been married and had a couple of sons and I thought, ‘Well, you know, this is just a guy moved away from [Newport?] news for some reason and settled in Norfolk. I thought it was unusual he didn’t have any friends, you know, I didn’t know and… but, it wasn't because of that it was because Parker had some questionable associations with mob figures, with assassins, he was in Burma, special operations command. He liked being, living a dangerous life and he bragged about to others. My husband and he gravitated to one another and I thought it was wonderful because my husband didn't seem to have any friends. So I sort of fixed him up with Parker. Well, Parkers the one who did me in, you know. Parker plotted and it's a long story but basically, and this sounds petty but I wouldn't go out with him. And, and I’m not saying I did anything that was… it’s just that he was in my type.

EH: Uh-huh, obviously.

KG: You know, well, I mean not… he’s just, he’s boorish, he’s loud, he’s kind of rude…

EH: So you’re saying, just in a social context…

KG: Yeah. So what happened was, because my husband so close to Bush and McFarlane and Scowcroft, all these guys Parker starts getting in with my husband's friends and cultivating them. And he goes from having one shipping agency to dotted all over the place. He goes from being a democrat in petty little Virginia politics and being the Icelandic/Finish Consul; to having big shipping deals going through Iceland and Finland… and Norway and my husband setting up deals in Los Norway which I was the president of the Sister Cities Association. I was being used while my husband, while they were setting up, you know, shipment places, trans shipment places. I mean, I was witnessing all of this and all came back to meet, jut boom, like that. But Parker… it was so interesting. We had a hearing, I had a hearing with my husband. That very day George Bush was in town. My husband was in town. My home was broken in to, while I was in court. Very strategically I was called by a Marine Colonel, named Jack who is very involved with the maritime shipping business and he knew that I know a lot about that. He called me and invited me as a guest of his to attend the George Bush… huge banquet with John Warner while my house is being robbed. My car was sabotaged that day. And guess who introduced George Bush? T. Parker Host. Now he made it to the big time.

EH: You know Alexander Haig is… you can help yourself to the coffee.

KG: Thank you. Yeah, he’s a friend of…

EH: Alexander Haig, he rose from nothing to top dog just overnight that's ‘cause he's in the club.

KG: Oh, of course. He’s in the club. Now how he's in the club, you see…

EH: Now all these guys…

KG: Henry Kissinger, Heinz Kissinger… Oh, I have a story, this…

EH: Oh, we all suspect Henry’s a queer but…

KG: Oh, well I have first, I have a firsthand story from Bob who was a bear in Cambodia with Heinz.

EH: Oka… you call him Heinz.

KG: [nodding] Henry.

EH: Okay.

KG: His real name is Heinz Kissinger.

EH: Okay. [looks over her shoulder]

EH: We’ll straighten that out. [off camera] We had a light that fell down boys. Did you notice that? We got to be alert to notice all these little things. And that’s very hot by the way.

KG: See Haig, Haig was an Army…

EH: Just, just a second… let’s get this straight just here. That is a hot light and you'll burn your fingers in the attachment and by the way as long as we’re on an unofficial break here did you happen to read my note as I was writing it?

OC: I could see just part of it.

EH: When I was writing it or only when I held it up?

OC: When you held it up for a [unintelligible]

EH: Okay.

OC: I made that adjustment.

EH: Okay, while I was starting to write, I wrote, ‘widen her a bit.’ And I looked up, well; lo-and-behold he’s done it. So I thought, ‘Well maybe he can read this over my shoulder, that’s cool.’ And…

OC: No, I need that…

KG: Oh, you saw it and interpreted…

OC: I seen you…

EH: You can read it from here?

OC: Yeah.

KG: Oh, that’s cute… oh this is, oh y’all are wonderful. What a team!

OC: [laughing]

KG: What a team you are.

OC: That’s the only thing I could see was that.

EH: And, and you… you… thank you. Okay.

OC: Actually all you gotta do if you write it and tip it up a little bit I’ll…

EH: Okay. ‘Cause the thing of it when she’s illustrating something using her hands well then [click] cease on that and open up so we don’t lose the lower part of her hands. Not far enough down to where, you know, strategically we, we get out of focus but just… it’s cool. Alright, we’re back and this is good. Let's go back to… see we want to talk about Henry Kissinger but also would, I introduced the idea about George Bush.

KG: Yeah.

EH: Three, two, one. Now, so George Bush, I mean, all these people who rise up through the ranks are in the same club. No wonder, you know, I saw a little TV clip one time where a reporter was asking George Bush and others about the Order of the Skull and Bones. All these guys we're shocked that somebody mentioned the term and they, they just would not discuss it all.

KG: Right.

EH: And the reporter said, ‘I understand that as part of the oath you don’t discuss it?’ And George jus’ flat out said ‘It's just not to be discussed.’ and that was in the subject. Now that’s because… I mean if this really got out that these guys are all inducted because they’ve got some sort of homosexual…

KG:  Right.

EH: …thing on them.

KG: Indoctrination, I mean, or induction. They have to do that.

EH: Yeah.

KG:  They do that. Uh-huh.

EH: Even if…

KG: In a coffin and it’s even now coming in to the military totally. The Chiefs do that, they put them in the coffin, they do the bowling ball trick…

EH: Okay, you’re going to have to explain this. What happens when you get the coffin, why do you get in a coffin?

KG: Oh. They get… When you get your eagles [points to shoulders], that’s a German thing, you know. It’s what the German high did and most of them had the boyfriends and stuff. The Krupps and all that. It is a German thing that they say goes back to Greece and it's all the male Marine looking men that they do it with, you see.

EH: Uh-huh.

KG: So, now the Chiefs have to do that. What they do is, they get… George said it's like a zoo. They get everybody really drunk and they sometimes call it ‘Dining in’ or ‘Shellback’ is another time is another time that they do it. Not everybody does it but the ones who do it, if they're young, they, they get right to the top. It’s a…

EH: Okay, well what actually do they do? They've got a coffin they get in…

KG: Anal sex. Oh, oh that. They do, they put them in the coffin and they do things.

EH: Okay, they perform things?

KG: Yeah.

EH: On each other?

KG: Yeah, while they’re all around there, going drunk.

EH: I see. So there’s a guy in the coffin?

KG: Yeah and he’s the one who is…

EH: The recipient of all the acts, right?

KG: Right, right.

EH: Probably safe to conclude that these are oral sex acts on this guy or something like that?

KG: Yeah.

EH: Okay.

KG: Yeah. Oral and anal. Whatever.

EH: Yeah.

KG: But…

EH: What’s the significance of the coffin?

KG: I don’t know. But…

EH: It’s the mystic about the Skull and Bones…

KG: But what is interesting is the… now the young SEALs, Delta Force, the ones who go from Army to BUD/S [Basic Underwater Demolition/SEAL]; the BUD/S training SEALs all…

EH: BUD/S?

KG: BUD/S is the emerging SEAL group.

EH: Oh, I see. The budding SEALs.

KG: [nodding] Budding SEALs.

EH: I see.

KG: And they have to break into houses. Their training exercise is to break into civilians houses.

EH: For practice?

KG: For practice. They broke into my house when, when… George and I were first married… I had many, many, many underwear… this is terrible to say, lingerie. I had lots of, you know. I didn't buy much but it all disappeared. And then when the psyching was beginning…

EH: Uh-huh.

KG: I had white blouses that they would all have black dots on them. I’d say, ‘George, here's another blouse with a black dot.’

EH: And it was just a little message?

KG:  Somebody's message, you know. Or I would… after George left it was batteries in a drawer. You know, you can’t tell the police, ‘I opened up a draw of where I had six batteries and now I’ve got fifty batteries!’ ‘Well of course you're crazy.’ You know. And I started my little [saw?] with a screwdriver and, you know, I was always looking around for screwdrivers. Well, one day I come home and they're about twelve screwdrivers on the table. You know,  neatly placed. Well, you can’t call the police and say, ‘I’ve got twelve screwdrivers’, you know. You can’t tell people that you've got black dots on all, on all your white blouses.

EH: [laughing]

KG: You know you shoes are disappearing an then, this is, this is really… I call the police the first break in, which was the night March the fourth. The night before I went to see General Joy at the Mariette.

EH: Yeah.

KG: Well, I had already called the police when I was battered because I, I was just bruises. I made O.J’s [O.J. Simpson] wife look like Marylyn Monroe. I mean, you talk about… and I was doing this because I thought it would help him… you know, have forty fives but to my head and he’s laughing, strangle me into his finger on the jugular vein and he just say, ‘Now don’t you dare move.’ You know, or I’d be lying in bed he’d do a jab or he’d just push me off the bed. You can’t believe what horror I went through to try and get this man to understand what Christ’s love is about, you know. People say, ‘Oh, well you should have left…’ well, I took my marriage vows seriously, I knew he was injured psychologically by the war, by whatever he was made to do. So, I mean, I’m fine, I just sacrificed a lot. I was in a big wrestling match with a crazy guy, you know. But I still love the little boy within, he's very troubled. But anyway, I call the police after a number of little break-ins and guess what? The police man they sent was a little short guy, with the short hair cut, whose name was Shorty Saderwhite.

EH: Okay.

KG: And Shorty Saderwhite was saying, ‘Oh now, Miss Griggs, now you’re just making this up. Now you know Miss Griggs… this is just, you’re just traumatised. Your husband’s gone. Blah, blah, blah.’ I found out he was a twenty year Marine.

EH: Uh-huh. Okay.

KG: And not only that but some other, there's another part of his life… but that’s okay. I mean, he’s a nice guy. But he was a Marine.

EH: And he takes orders.

KG: Of course he does. He’s still reserve. So, I think, ‘Okay, I’ll call the FBI.’ I’ll let them know what’s going on. I heard about the FISA court and that they'd, you know, because I’m talking about William Colby maybe they think I'm a threat because I know all these international people. So I’m just gonna call them and tell them what’s going on. So I called Torrance, who’s the head of the FBI and he’s too busy, you know, too busy. So he sends this guy Dan McNally and Dan McNally is a very nice guy and he has this girl interview me and I type out something about George's history and what I know. Guess who else is a twenty-year marine? Dan McNally.

EH: Uh-huh.

KG: And it just so happens that Dan McNally best friend, and he's not married either, but that's alright. His best friend, who is from North Carolina and never married, is the best friend of Fred [Hence/Hens/Heinz?] who the one who took me to this place, [mahé mas?] where O had the two death threats. Who was graduated from college in fifty nine, he was intelligence, his father was a German high… part of the Kizer’s elite group.

EH: Uh-huh.

KG: He was NATO, Colonel, which I thought was pretty neat and that's why they knew the profile - Kay likes NATO people 'cause she's going to learn a little bit about another culture, you know. And his, I’m not saying it because his, you know, his family were high command but he was also an existentialist. And…

EH: Okay, for our views that may not know the term ‘existentialist’ you mean?

KG: An existentialist, according to my husband, which he is one, Fred Hans, all of these people are existentialists. They believe doing whatever it takes. It doesn't matter what the law says. They will do anything necessary to get what they want politically…

EH: Okay.

KG: …and economically and whatever. In other words, killing a leader, killing five people, killing twenty people, according to George is a lot better than war. This is way they rationalise it. They… you didn't used to kill women and children in war when, when the British Army, they were pure, kinda… you know, you didn't go out and kill… I think Dresden they, they did do some of that. But that was, that was Walt Whitman Rostow and his crowd. And he's a very dangerous man because Walt Whitman Rostow is a communist.

EH: Okay, in what capacity is he?

KG: Oh, he was one of the wise men in Kennedy’s administration. I think he was probably responsible for the movement that got Kennedy murdered. I believe it was an Israeli group which did it with some of these rouges.

EH: Okay, when you mentioned wise men, is this an insider term?

KG: Wise man, yeah. Kennedy’s wise men were guys like, you know, the Harvard crowd and he was trying to bring them in to change things around a lot.

EH: Uh-huh.

KG: Walt Whitman Rostow was the one who got us into the Vietnam War because he wanted to sell the weapon and stuff. He was… he and Victor Krulak, who is the present commandant father, Krulak was his lackey. Walt Whitman Rostow’s lackey. Walt Whitman Rostow went with Taylor, General Taylor [General Maxwell Taylor] and wrote the report that got us into the Vietnam War and all the time that the Pentagon was saying, ‘No, no, no, no’ he was a cheerleader for the weapon sales, he Henry Kissinger – Heinz.

EH: Uh-huh.

KG: He and Henry, Walt Whitman Rostow, Eugene Debs Rostow [Eugene Victor Debs Rostow], these were communists, named for communist. Eugene Debs Rostow and, it’s either his son or his other brother, runs the big Boston mob, the port there. His name is Nicholas Rostow [Charles Nicholas Rostow] with the Weld. You know with William Weld? They’ve done all that drug business in Mexico for years. They had that Russian, you know, the one who was murdered by the... assassin Ramón [Ramón Mercader] you know, he was a competitor, Stalin’s competitor and he escaped. Very famous… Trotsky [Leon Trotsky].

EH: Okay, uh-huh.

KG: Leon Trotsky became a Christian at the end. And you can't become a Christian. That’s a death warrant. So they, they killed Trotsky because he was becoming too, I think, now I don't… maybe I don't know the whole story. There’s probably a lot more to it and I just… maybe I see completely the wrong picture there but Trotsky was murdered by this same, per region, Spanish/Czechoslovakian/Georgian/Russian group which are all part of the former [abware?]

EH: Okay.

OC: We’ve got to stop. Tolstory [KG had been referring to Leon Trotsky as Leo Tolstoy] is not the correct name, I know who you’re talking about, I can’t think of who… Tolstory is a writer.

KG: A what?

OC: A writer, a Russian writer. The guy you’re thinking of was murdered in Mexico.

KG: Yeah.

OC: [It’s] not Tolstory.

EH: Okay, what was his name?

OC: [unintelligible]… Jewish boy.

EH: Good, it’s a good point to bring it up because if we can correct that name… and don’t go that wide. A lot of time we’re going wide and I told not going anywhere near that wide because we get all this junk over here and we don’t want in the picture.

KG: Are you sure it doesn't it wasn’t Tolstory?

EH: [off camera] That is plenty for…

KG: I thought it was.

EH: That is plenty.

OC: He’s a writer.

KG: I know he’s a writer.

OC: [to PS] Sorry about that.

KG: I know.

EH: It’s Okay, you’re learning.

OC: [to KG] This guy was the right hand man of… of… William and he defected and went to Mexico. He went to Mexico and they murdered him.

KG: I think it was Tolstory.

EH: It could be two Tolstorys?

OC: No, Tolstory was a very famous…

EH: You’re not thinking of Trotsky?

KG: Oh, yes! You’re right. Ay!

[everyone laughs]

KG: Ay, got it, got it. Let’s correct that. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Bravo!

OC: [to PS] [unintelligible but probably a reference to amount of time left on film]

EH: We’re getting close.

KG: [to OC] Close.

OC: You were, you were doing so well and I thought, ‘We can’t use this because it’s the wrong name and it’s going to disrupt the whole story.’ I’m sorry about that.

KG: Good, good.

EH: Okay.

KG: Trotsky.

EH: Let’s back up, okay. We have five minutes to go? Okay, we can easily do that. That is on this tape.

OC: I’ll tell you what [unintelligible]…

EH: We have more time that this but on this tape…

OC: …but on the next tape but in next five minutes tell us what max [unintelligible] because you mentioned it earlier…

KG: Okay.

OC: …I still don’t know what it means.

EH: But let’s get Trotsky in this piece right now while were thinking about this, okay? So, let’s pick this up with… [starts hand signalling count down 5, 4, 3, 2, 1]… you were saying, about… we were talking about the wise men, about the Rostows and…

KG: William Weld and Mexico and the involvement of the Mexican government and it’s not Tolstory it’s Trotsky.

EH: Okay, hold on a sec.  It won’t even be necessary to mention that will be completely clipped and edited so just go ahead and tell the whole story but use the name Trotsky.

KG: Alright.

EH: Okay, so go ahead. [hand signals countdown] Go ahead.

KG: This group, which is run, which was run out of Paris, is still being run out of Paris, revolutionary, terrorist group, which is controlling these Marines and Army… Steiner’s group, they all operate together. The man who started all this program during Vietnam communists, who were in the Spanish communist movement. They actually promoted communists in the OSS [Office of Strategic Services], which was started by this William… anyway, Donovan [William J. Donovan].

EH: Okay.

KG: So they said they were promoting and using communists who work actually wanting to get rid of our form of government as a stepping stone to world domination. So this group, now, in the Army, in the Marine Corps has communists at the very top, who are really, you know, existentialist - which means they, they don't believe in god, they don't believe in Christ, they live for the moment, they believe in sort of, one world which has no religions in it.

EH: Right.

KG: They're the ones who put Napoleon in power, they're the ones who put Oliver Cromwell in power, they're the ones, probably, who actually got… were behind the Roman Empire and maybe the Egyptian Empire. They put puppet people in power and they actually run it from behind the scenes.

EH: Uh-huh.

KG: Now, Trotsky, as I understand it was… escaped from Russia. He had become a Christian, I understand and was working with agents in the United States… Israel. And he was considered a threat so he had to be silence, killed. There's an excellent book which I have called, ‘The Mind of an Assassin’ [Isaac Don Levine] which is about the background of Trotsky’s assassin. A man, a young man named Ramón, who was trained, he was Soviet paid, I think he had experience in Spain, they organised it in Paris, I believe and, of course, up to the present time there had been assassins operating out of Rome, Milan in particular, Naples and Paris. And these are all anarchists, all mob related, use mob funding.

EH: Uh-huh.

KG: And, of course, drug money to pay for the weapons, which are brand new weapons. This, the Bosnia bizarre this is the reason we had the war in Bosnia. The war in Bosnia is simply a stage to train assassins, to be a market for brand new weapons, to be a market place so the drug money can be used and the Army runs the whole show. It's, it's totally run by the army. The CIA is a bogus thing, you know, it's, it's training in doctoring command. It’s NATO. It’s SHAPE -Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe - Started by Eisenhower [President Dwight David "Ike" Eisenhower]. It’s a totally independent corporation. Its main function is to sell weapons and laundered money.

EH: You’re talking about the CIA?

KG: No, [I’m] talking about SHAPE.

EH: SHAPE?

KG: CIA is kinda bogus. I mean it’s a…

EH: That’s just a trade name for the media to use?

KG: Oh, it’s to confuse us just to get us off the track.

EH: Uh-huh.

KG: It’s all being done by Army people who are, now joint, ‘cause word joint comes from the group that brought over a lot... and a lot of good people came over but they came out over illegally from, to kind of escape Nazi Germany and stuff, I don't know that much about it, but I do know that the funding organisation, one of the funding organisations was out of New York and it was called ‘The Joint’. And Meyer Lansky [Meyer Suchowljansky]… see, our mob, the organized crime, the Jewish kabalalist group, who don't believe in god really, well they do, they look at god as a kabalalic like kind of thing, the opposite of good is bad and they had to get rid of all that, all the good people and kill them and then, you know, I mean they really do this. They’re killing people, who are good, on purpose and they get brownie points with their little cult. But this funding group in New York they would pay for passports, which were illegal, in fact Grandfather was involved with that, that's how I know so much about it because my Grandfather was told to keep silent and not to tell anybody but of course he told my Grandmother and my Grandmother told me and I’ve told my children. Everybody knows that they brought in, probably, more than two hundred thousand Nazi soldiers and SS [Schutzstaffel - Protection Squadron] and, you know, whackos scientists and psychologists and, and all of the, most of them had the German disease. You know, because it was their culture.

EH: The German disease?

KG: Yeah, the German disease is what the pink triangle boys were. Colonel Rob Ray [Colonel Charles Rob Ray] writes about this. He’s a Marine Colonel who's a Christian who's writing about the ‘Cherry Marines’ a homosexuality in the group sex orgies and so forth, which brought down the German government because Naples, which is where all of the Navy is doing they're playing. I mean today, in Naples, these orgies are going on it was where Krupp, the weapons manufacturer, used to take the German High Command and they would go into, on the allied Capri into the Blue Grotto and they would have big orchestras and they bring in a little boys, little Italian boys, who would be raped. They’d give them trinkets and, of course, the mother's gradually found out and just like me it was one thing when there was just one of me, now there are a lot more of us wives who we're talking and telling truth. And it took those Italian, those Italian women went to newspapers in Italy; they wouldn't listen. But when they went to the wives of these guys, in Germany, it brought it all out. It brought the German government down because they were duplicitous in it, you know. But what they were doing was paedophilia; they were raping bringing in little boys. They involve the catholic priests, you know, who were bringing it all, anyways. So, but what happened was this whole group came over to the United States and they… it's a, it's an old culture. But it is the reason there are a lot of things going on with children these days.

EH: Uh-huh.

KG: And explains why it's all being covered up because if you've got police officers who were playing these games and you're going in the words like, what is this place they where… I mean, even Eisenhower play these games even, Mike Kemp out in, it's called the Hermitage [Bohemian Grove].

EH: The hermitage.

KG: In California, where they all run it to get drunk and they run around nude in the words and stuff.

EH: Bohemian Grove?

KG: That’s it, Bohemian Grove.

EH: Rather than Hermitage it Bohemian Grove?

KG: [nodding] Bohemian Grove, that’s the name of it. My brain’s tired [laughing]

EH: That’s okay.

KG: And the one in, there was one in, a big one in Washington, called Rush River Lodge, where they used to all go and there are lots of places now. But the problem, as I see it, is that I think they're trying to destroy America and the basic protestant Christian culture because where you have a militaristic society, which is where the rules are only for those people and, keep in mind that Meyer Lansky and Luciano, Lucky Luciano [Charles "Lucky" Luciano] and the other man, they chose to go Italy. Luciano went to Milan. He didn’t… he wasn't banished to Naples and Milan. The two top mob families went there because of the weapons industry. They're selling weapons. I mean, that's what the military is doing. It's, it's totally controlled by the mob. Look, look at this: Weinberger was General Douglas MacArthur’s… he spied on MacArthur in Korea. Who is MacArthur’s nemesis, albatross? It was none other than little old intelligence ‘I’m going to tell every move you make’ Weinberger. Young, but he did it he brought down MacArthur every move MacArthur was going to make he’d broadcast it through the chaplain, his little intelligence network. And he got brownie points with the group because he brought down the big lion. When you get rid of a big lion like that you get, you get a big job. You’ve done, you’ve done good work. And they needed to get rid of MacArthur because he didn't, he didn’t want to keep the wars going. He wanted it over and, you know, it's like General Truffey, who took over after the Vietnam War was over and he was on C-SPAN [Cable-Satellite Public Affairs Network] in August of ninety six with former ambassador Whitehead [Robert E. Whitehead] and a few of the other, you know, State Department, Vietnam people. And General Truffey he was, he had been holding this in for years.

EH: Uh-huh.

KG: He was on C-SPAN. This man let it all out. He said, ‘I took over at the end of the Vietnam War. I was in control’, right. Big general. ‘So I say cut off the shipment of weapons. So I tell the pentagon cut off the shipment of weapons.’ He said, ‘I got a phone call from Henry Kissinger. Saying the weapons are gonna continue at the wartime rate.’

EH: Sure.

KG: Now, that's when all this stuff in China started, well, it was started before then because already the communist agents the New York, Brooklyn, New Jersey mob were are already training Mao. Mao [Mao Zedong] was trained in Paris. So was, you know, the one Cambodia, what’s his name? I can't think of his name. The one who was… Pol Pot [Saloth Sar]. They were homosexual, bless their little hearts, by priests. They were wonderful little boys sent there, you know, turned, which is the word, you know, when they believe their mothers and then all of a sudden the world's horrible and they had these wonderful friends who are going to make them leaders. They’re turned, psychologically and it's a pattern and so, this is why it's so important to know what they are doing to innocent little boys in the Army and the Marine Corps today. Why? Why are they having them go together in groups and, and stripped nude when they’re brand new inductees?

EH: Uh-huh.

KG: Why did they do certain things in public, in front of the group?

EH: And they even do that at the, in the pre-induction visit?

KG: Yes. And they also have the doctors…

EH: That’s why I didn’t want to go in the Army. I knew there was something up.

[laughing]

KG: But they also turned around the other way after doing that. The other way and then their upside down and they do this [points finger] anally. Now, why do they do that in public? Why the urinals all out in public? You know, without separate stalls if they're not promoting this and then why is it that the ones who are this way rise up faster than the ones who don't?

EH: Because of someone there noticing…

KG: Yeah, sure.

EH: …those who are…

KG: Vulnerable.

EH: Vulnerable. I was going to say rising but that wouldn’t be quite appropriate.

KG: They’re called rising stars.

EH: Rising stars.

KG:  That’s the word the State Department uses for those who are controlled and when I was volunteering with the State Department as escort, in Virginia, I had this group called, I thought it up myself, VIVA, Virginia International Visitors Association. And I tried so hard to get to be a part of the State Department family. But, you know, I'm a Christian, you see. I’m a protestant Christian and they don't want Christians in there. My goodness! You know, I would have guests and, and I would let them know I was Christian and I love them and Virginia is a wonderful place.

EH: Yeah.

KG: But we, I couldn't be apart at that. They sent me people but… you know, I never was a part of it. Even though I had lots and lots dignitaries.

EH: Did you ever have any contact with Madeline Albright?

KG: No, I lived with Sarah McClendon for about six months.

EH: Uh-huh.

KG: Sarah is a democrat. See, I was republican all these years .I was married for twenty one years to a democratic governors grandson. It was an arranged marriage and so I knew a lot of the high level democrats who were really sort of conservative it’s hard, you know, in Virginia they're very conservative. So when I stayed with Sarah McClendon I had become a republican and Sarah told me allot of the things that were going on in the white house. From her insider perspective which totally challenged my perspective on everything. You know, Ron Brown [Ronald Harmon "Ron" Brown] was murdered, for example.

EH: Sure.

KG: Vince Foster [Vincent Walker "Vince" Foster, Jr.] was murdered. Forestal [James Forrestal] was murdered.

EH: Tell you what we’re gonna break right here ‘cause we’re just about out of tape, I think on this end here.

KG: Okay.

EH:  This will be a good place to pick up though. Ron Brown, Vince Foster, I think Foster had a Marine Corps background. Is that possible?

KG: I think so. He may have. I bet he did. That would fit right in. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. That would fit right in. Because Nussbaum’s [Bernard W. Nussbaum] office was right across the hall.

EH: [to OC] Okay, we can pop these tapes out actually.

KG: Okay.

EH: We’re a fresh with brand new tapes. [to OC] The number two . Let’s take a nice long break.

KG: Alright.

t doesn't mean ‘oh my god’ the countdown is here we’re… What we’re gonna do is we’re just going to record a bunch of stuff here and we can do some more tomorrow if we forget some today doesn't matter we can put it in if you think of something in twenty minutes that should have been said right up front it doesn't matter. KG: Great EH: We simply want to reduce the standard tape so that it doesn't get lost KG: Yeah, yeah.

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